Part 2
LE: So I have a gist of this. Your views of beta blockers have been the same. One concern I would have personally if I were to recommend beta blockers to my students now a days is that in athletics the World Anti-Doping Agency has included beta blockers in their [banned list]. For instance, golf or shooting, and these things. It is actually now considered a performance enhancer. So certain parts of the NCAA will actually ban the beta blockers. So what you said of other countries, that they are used over-the-counter --perhaps in America things are viewed differently. Given these circumstances, would you have even more concern? Or, because of what happened to you in the past, do you feel that you would not recommend them were you teaching at a university now?
RM: No, I would still recommend them.
LE: OK.
RM: I would do it very carefully. Again, I suggest that they have to go to a doctor. But I am not handing them the drug, from my hand to theirs. If a doctor prescribes it, I don't see a problem. I have that on my website. I have never backed down from that [position].
LE: Interesting. I appreciate your candidness with that. So, do you have any concerns about health or side effects with the number of musicians taking this drug so readily, so common? One thing, with somebody on heart medication they would actually … the dose would be steady, with a performer, they might take beta blockers one day and then not and then take them again. So the dose is not steady as someone with heart medication -- for example.
RM: Well, I can't really say as far as somebody who takes it all the time. But I know for myself for my students who have taken it... I had some younger ones taking it. Now this is not a lot of students, but I had one little girl who was maybe 7th or 8th grade. She had terrible performance anxiety. I believe this was after this happened at Rhodes. I told her parents, I said, "This might help her, but you have to take her to the doctor." The doctor didn't hesitate. So when you have kids like that or adults who are only using them maybe two or three times a year, I don't see a problem. I can't say for somebody who is on them all the time. Now I know that I have a friend here who teaches at another university who has high blood pressure, and he is on them all the time. He takes maybe 40 milligrams a day. So how would he even know if he has performance anxiety. He is already medicated that much.
LE: You mentioned one of your younger students. Do you believe that the increasing competitive environment we have -- jobs, university admissions, All State [Competitions] -- that more and more young people will feel compelled to take drugs they don't need to take?
RM: Maybe, but they are already taking a "hell of a lot" of drugs they don't need to be taking, and beta blockers are the least of the problems.
LE: Are you aware of any other institutions that have taken actions against there faculty for recommending beta blockers? Is there anyone else who shares your experience?
RM: Not that I have heard of, and I heard from a lot of people when that article came out. It was not only in The New York Times but also in the International Herald Tribune. So I also heard from some of my European friends.
LE: That is very interesting. Do you believe what happened to you could happen to others at similar institutions?
RM: I do. But here again, I am not so sure that it is a real beta blocker problem, but [rather] a problem with students. Like in my case they are after you, and they will do whatever they can to take you down. In my opinion -- you look at the end of every semester and they pass out these questionnaires to students
(LE: We have many issues with that actually)
RM:-- and they come back and you have this horrible rating for a teacher who is an absolutely
great teacher. If you really start questioning it is because the teacher is demanding usually. Not always but in a lot of cases that's true. I think it is an individual – let’s say -- problem. You just can't be too careful. You also have to stand up for what you believe.
LE: Certainly, I appreciate that you maintain your views through this relatively difficult process. Do you have any other comments that you would like to share regarding about this experience? Do you have any advice for other educators who are dealing with these controversies, [educators] who are trying to help their students as much as possible and yet possibly facing some kind of action? How do you balance that with your experience?
RM: Well, first of all you have to be very careful with the way you present this advice to a student. Depending upon their age it would be good to include parents if they are younger. I have recommended some [beta blockers] to younger ones. Always with the parents there. With college students you have to use your own judgment and be very, very careful. There are lots of things these days you can get sued for. You can just add this to your list.
LE: I want to thank you very much for this interview. It has been very informative for me. We do plan to use this for our ethics course, and I will pursue possible some other publication. I will definitely give you a copy of the final versions once we get it edited. I will keep you abreast if anything comes of this.